City leaders and funds

[sixf00t4]

first off, the disclaimer.
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This requires core edits.  If you do not know php, stop reading now and close this thread.  I will not offer support to get this module working for you.  Core files are continuously changing, and i cannot keep updating locations and lines of what need changed, and i will not be responsible for changes you overwrite.

You must report all changes to these files as soon as they are made.  consider this the request for the module.  I would like to see development of this module, but i am not ready to pick up development just yet.

Again, do not ask for support on getting this module working.  You will be shunned like you've never been shunned before.  And if i get 1 Private message about this module, you owe me your first born.   

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read the above.  twice.

http://dragonprime.net/index.php?module=Downloads;sa=dlview;id=1205

Description: so this is a farely large module that adds a lot to the gameplay/role play aspect of the game.  Players can run for office, there are elections, and you can be voted out of office, and best of all, it's all automated.  There are settings for how long players can be in office, how long elections last, etc.

Background: one of the worst things that exist in the coding of the game is that cities are tied into races.  If anything, races should be tied into villages.  in my opinion, it all needs redone.  I've had a few ideas, and possibly a module or two more that tie into this/these modules too.

core edits:  (if it's kosher with Tal and XChrisX, i'm going to be somewhat vague to prevent people from copy and pasting. cool?)

All race files that have a city with them: 

OPTIONAL - add a hook for charstats, and then for the hook make it:

Code:

if ($session['user']['race']==$race){
addcharstat("Vital Info");
addcharstat("Race", translate_inline($race));
}

REQUIRED:
empty the race_checkcity() function.


....i was comparing files i thought i changed as i'm posting this...and that's all i found....I swear i made more changes......cities.php, village.php, and dragon.php all seem intact....hmmm....

[birthpangs]

Well.   I don't quite understand why the hesitancy to explain how to edit the core.  Saucy had such a hesitancy at one time, too.  Maybe someone can explain that hesitancy to me some time.

Since what I will have to say does not apply to core code I think I'm safe.

If you are like me and didn't want any 'races' at all then you might find it easier to deactivate racehuman and instead install Saucy's racegeneric.   I had a bit of trouble with the game if I actually uninstalled racehuman.  So, keep it installed but deactivate it.  Then, using racegeneric, you will find that it is a fairly eay to find the checkcity function you need to delete.

I understand that six is not looking to support the mods here.  For others willing to check into it, though, I mention that for the most part it works well.  There seems to be a couple of instances where the leader's chamber's links don't work.  I'm going to comment out the navs, I think.

Do I really have to provide a copy of these files if I've merely commented out the nav, say, for 'auto-deny citizenship'?   Such a fix like that hardly seems worth uploading.

[Elessa]

Well.   I don't quite understand why the hesitancy to explain how to edit the core.  Saucy had such a hesitancy at one time, too.  Maybe someone can explain that hesitancy to me some time.

mostly because the majority of those who do break their games.  it happens because they really haven't a clue about coding. or when an upgrade becomes available, they did not document their changes which then breaks their game due to not knowing where the change was made and how to reapply it to correspond to the upgrade.

also, in nearly all instances the reason someone wants to edit core could easily be handled by a module.

aye, i realise there are games that are truly custom such as thine and genmac's.  for those editing core is necessary to achieve the outcome ye desire.

Do I really have to provide a copy of these files if I've merely commented out the nav, say, for 'auto-deny citizenship'?   Such a fix like that hardly seems worth uploading.

if someone requests a copy, provide one either via a download link already visible on the modules info page on thy site, or via email if ye hath it indicated as 'not publically released'.

tis not necessary to hath a copy uploaded here. 

[Talisman]

I don't quite understand why the hesitancy to explain how to edit the core.  Saucy had such a hesitancy at one time, too.  Maybe someone can explain that hesitancy to me some time.

There are a couple reasons for it, none of which involve us being contankerous, uncooperative buttheads.  

1.  Upgradability:  When you start editting the core files, you significantly complicate your task when we release update core code.  If your edits are extensive, you'll find yourself running obsolete, unsupported code and denying yourself access to whatever new features which might be included in subsequent releases.

2.  Flexibility:  The module system is pretty flexible - there is very little that can't be done using a good imagination and the module system.  Yes, the occasional core edit might be needed, but they should really be the exception rather than the rule.

3.  User Ability:  If we have to explain to someone how to edit core code, then they shouldn't be editting their core code.  They should be doing research, experiments and learning how to edit code.  They should be learning to crawl (modify and/or create modules), walk (create unique modules) and then run (full bore coding).  If they aren't prepared knowledge-wise, they'll return to us with "My game is broke how do I fix it?", but won't bother to tell us they've editted files, what changes they've made, and so forth.  We've seen too much of it in the past, and a volunteer support system such as this just isn't setup to provide that kind of support.

Someone who doesn't know how to trouble shoot a simple missing ; or } shouldn't be running yet.

It's important to note that there is nothing specifically wrong with changing the core files...only that there is usually a better way to accomplish the goal...and anyone who embarks on a journey of customization through core edits needs to be fully cognizant of the risks relating to upgrades (not to mention having the coding ability to figure out how to fix what they've broken).

Do I really have to provide a copy of these files if I've merely commented out the nav, say, for 'auto-deny citizenship'?   Such a fix like that hardly seems worth uploading.

Yes and no.  Generally, modified core files won't be hosted here anyhow, although anybody capable of hosting a game is also capable of providing access to such files in a downloads section, so "no", they shouldn't be uploaded here.  To comply with the license, "yes", they must be made available to anybody who asks for them, or be available for easy download.  There is nothing in the license which states such files must be hosted on DragonPrime, nor is that what DragonPrime is for!

[sixf00t4]

I understand that six is not looking to support the mods here. For others willing to check into it, though, I mention that for the most part it works well.

I understand my first post was a bit blunt, but i think you are misunderstanding me.  I will support this module, but only this module.  I don't care what modules it breaks.  I don't care that your cities no longer work.  I don't care that players races are not set after a dk.  what i care about is how this module works.  and i will develop it further.

There seems to be a couple of instances where the leader's chamber's links don't work. I'm going to comment out the navs, I think.

This would be an example of something i'm willing to work on.  If you give me a little more to go on, and maybe help me out in figuring what problem you're having with it, we can correct it.

Do I really have to provide a copy of these files if I've merely commented out the nav, say, for 'auto-deny citizenship'? Such a fix like that hardly seems worth uploading.

Providing copies of the files is useless.  What i said is i want you to post changes.  So i expect a post from you soon that says something to the tune of "I commented out lines X, Y, and Z because I don't feel like looking into why those links aren't working or telling Sixf00t4 exactly what error i'm getting or any other leads on correcting the problem" 

[SaucyWench]

I wholeheartedly agree that races and cities should not be glued together actually. It's something that we had not forseen as a problem (ie that small servers installing cities ended up with fractured gameplay and chat). There is also the option of unset for the char stats which I've used on the modified game I started and then abandoned. You can use it to remove all the char stats you didn't want.

racefelyne is one that can be used as a template for people wanting a race without a city. It runs without cities.php installed. It *would* still check for the existence of humans though. It wasn't really envisaged that people would one day run a game where there were no races

[Nightborn]

.. and cityamwayr.php is an example for a standalone city... (you may even set a dk limit to enter)

(I have a modified version that uses the normal travel module instead of the "go to" thingies and I repaired the # of travels <-> mount travels mismatch)

A settable home city for races would be good, also, if the city gets changed/deleted, it should update the module.

[birthpangs]

I don't know, the license on this particular file is confusing if only because of its adamant insistence that you report even the most minor of changes.  Instead of having it available for download upon request this one was a little different.  Is it not under the same license as the rest of the code?

That's neither here nor there, I suppose.  It makes a lot more sense now that I understand you do plan on developing the mod.  I am certainly not interested in forestalling that!

So, basically what I did was comment out lines 151-155, pretty much because they simply didn't work.  Changing the name of the city hall worked once, but then when you come back to try it again it does some weird stuff.  To be honest, I didn't take the time to root out what all these navs were doing incorrectly.  I found it easier just to comment them out.

One glaring absence to cityfunds is the ability of the leader to withdraw from the treasury.  That seems to be a critical need or else the taxation and donation (which both seem to work flawlessly) are meaningless.

Apart from the above, the only thing else that I would suggest is that when you fix the 'allow new citizen applications' nav so it enables or disables this ability, it would be a really good idea to make this something that the game admin can choose to give to a particular city, or withhold.

This may be a result of the fact that I'm running racegeneric (but I don't think so), but newly registered members are entering the game without having citizenship established anymore.  That means that the training grounds and the forest are invisible to them until they establish residency.  Maybe that's not bad in general, but what if my leader decided to turn off new citizen applications in this city?   My new players are hanging out to dry.

So, I think that is an option that once fixed needs to be adjustable by the game admin on a per city basis.

We had an election already, and it went fine.   No problems there.  One suggestion might be to have the name of the current leader broadcast somewhere, either in the city hall itself or on the village home page.

[Talisman]

The license for this file is the same as every other module released for LoGD - the CCL.  Sixfoot4 has just made a very strong request that those using and modifying it follow some additional procedures.

[sixf00t4]

not really additional procedures, as XChrisX has said, since modifications need to be made available upon request, I put the request in the form of a note within the files.  so immediately you are required to share modifications.

[SaucyWench]

Alright maybe there is some clarification needed... I am not seeing anyone say anywhere that they don't *want* to share changes, more like confusion on how to do it.

There's a thread probably overdue on courtesy with file editing. Things that aren't rules but would help us keep track of branched versions.

Anyone releasing any file under the CCL for LoGD knows that anyone can edit it in any way shape or form provided they also respect copyright. Here in DP however we also have courtesy rules we use.

If you find a bug, it's polite to contact the author or post in the thread, and let the author fix it, rather than go ahead and make a new version and attach the file.

If you add functionality it's polite to contact the author and tell them what you've done in case they want the changes. Or else, post in the thread.

These are *polite* things but not REQUIRED. No codicil in a file can demand that you do it in that fashion... however, anyone can require the changes be provided. Most of the authors would probably prefer to see the changes privately first, rather than someone immediately glueing code into a thread that the public sees.

Again, if anyone requests changes you made, you must provide. But that's not to say you can't make the changes in the first place. Hopefully, this makes a bit more sense and we can put frayed tempers away.

[birthpangs]

Actually, I'm looking at my game and its clear that new members are just not going to be adept enough to establish citizenship so that they have access to the warrior training and the forest.  I'd say that even though you didn't want resolve some of the issues outside of the parameters of the mod, this one might be a big one.

Honestly, I think a better solution would be core changes... the establishing of the home cities has been a finicky one for me to deal with.   It isn't that I don't think that players shouldn't have a home city when they sign up, but it would almost be nice if they could A. Pick their own home city.  And B.  Not have important functions like the forest and training grounds available based primarily on that.

I appreciate the mod, six.  I think its a great idea and I'm looking forward to fully implementing it in my game.

[sixf00t4]

hmm, perhaps i missed some core edits.  the way it works on my site, default city for the race is set on player creation, and they are able to select any other city they like.  after a dk, it stays their selected city. 

[birthpangs]

I should clarify, by core edits I don't mean for your mod, per se.  I mean that for later versions of dragonprime I think that this should be changed- ideally. 

As regards your mod, I don't have any core changes made.  I have racegeneric and specialtygeneric installed, but I could not get the game to work at all unless I had racehuman installed at least, even if I didn't have it activated.  I say that just so that if you're trying to figure out if the problem is on my server uniquely or a result of your mod you might be able to make a guess.

[birthpangs]

I have been fussing with this to try to make it usable on my game.  Six's pre-emptive 'on demand' request for changes notwithstanding, I could use some help.

I added a max tax rate setting.  That works fine.

What I'm trying to do is make it so that the leader can withdraw money from the fund.   Currently gold can get in, but you can't get it out.

See attached my novice attempts and if anyone can straighten that out, I'd appreciate it.

Also, Saucy, what are the chances you can help me fix up racegeneric so that it works not only with this mod but also so that brand new players are assigned a city.  Right now the patch on races to make this one work keeps a home city from being assigned if you are a new player.