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Author Topic: Ocean Quest by DaveS V5.25  (Read 24145 times)
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JollyGG
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« Reply #75 on: December 18, 2009, 08:20:02 AM »

* JollyGG bumps this*

I was talking to Kahlan about it. She said that the newday isn't working right. That players would only get to buy bait once...forever. Would those newday_files work?
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« Reply #76 on: December 20, 2009, 06:57:18 PM »

Nothing? I've never used this module so I have no earthly clue
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« Reply #77 on: December 22, 2009, 11:43:25 AM »

If the bait isn't being reset then something's wrong. Either the file is missing or currupt, or the server is struggling to run all the newday-runonce code.

Those newday_files of mine are just modified versions that wont allow data to be saved if no data could be retrieved.
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« Reply #78 on: December 22, 2009, 03:43:49 PM »

Hmm, I'm just trying to help Kahlan, she said it's been a while since someone has replied to her plea, so I thought I'd bump the thread.

So tell her to try a fresh copy of the module?
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Wolfsbanewillow
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« Reply #79 on: April 29, 2018, 09:24:31 AM »

Dear, I am not an admin, just a player who's playing the ocean quest on a website. I read the comments that some of you can't find the 4th piece of the decree. I asked the admin of de website on which I play and she told me where to look for it.
when I click on the link "ocean quest" I see a link "hints". When I activate this "hints"-link I see the text "this could be a good example of a hint" or something like that. But besides this text I don't see anything. Is the hint that's given an image of something or an image of a text? If yes, this is invisible to screenreader users, I'm afraid. Such hints are thus useless for screenreader users. The admin of the game confirmed that it's an image of that 4th piece of the decree. I can't find the word COASTER so I can't click nor activate it. I suppose that, when the image had an alt tag, I could find the word "coaster" and try to activate it. Screenreader users don't use the mouse, they use routing keys on a brailledisplay (if they are blind) or space bar or enter key of the keyboard. Partially sighted users sometimes use the mouse, but I only can tell you how I try to play or surf the web (as I'm blind and not partially sighted). If you want to test things out, nvda is an open-source screenreader you can use for free: www.nvaccess.org Leave the mouse alone for a session, use tab-key to navigate the web, enter or space bar to activate links etc. By doing so, you can test out if something is clickable or not, visible for screenreader users or not (if voice of screenreader doesn't tell what's on a certain place, you probably used content that it can't interprete). Thanks for looking at this and if you can fix this issue or tell me how I can fetch that 4th piece of that decree, I would be very thankfull. Best, WW
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« Reply #80 on: April 29, 2018, 10:32:38 AM »

Dear, I am not an admin, just a player who's playing the ocean quest on a website. I read the comments that some of you can't find the 4th piece of the decree. I asked the admin of de website on which I play and she told me where to look for it.
when I click on the link "ocean quest" I see a link "hints". When I activate this "hints"-link I see the text "this could be a good example of a hint" or something like that. But besides this text I don't see anything. Is the hint that's given an image of something or an image of a text? If yes, this is invisible to screenreader users, I'm afraid. Such hints are thus useless for screenreader users. The admin of the game confirmed that it's an image of that 4th piece of the decree. I can't find the word COASTER so I can't click nor activate it. I suppose that, when the image had an alt tag, I could find the word "coaster" and try to activate it. Screenreader users don't use the mouse, they use routing keys on a brailledisplay (if they are blind) or space bar or enter key of the keyboard. Partially sighted users sometimes use the mouse, but I only can tell you how I try to play or surf the web (as I'm blind and not partially sighted). If you want to test things out, nvda is an open-source screenreader you can use for free: www.nvaccess.org Leave the mouse alone for a session, use tab-key to navigate the web, enter or space bar to activate links etc. By doing so, you can test out if something is clickable or not, visible for screenreader users or not (if voice of screenreader doesn't tell what's on a certain place, you probably used content that it can't interprete). Thanks for looking at this and if you can fix this issue or tell me how I can fetch that 4th piece of that decree, I would be very thankfull. Best, WW

Problem being...it's supposed to be hard to find.  So if we assigned a hotkey to it, thenit would make it dead obvious to sighted players.  I am not sure there is a way to make it screenreader-accessible while also making it NOT dead obvious to sighted players.

I will go in and just GIVE you the fourth piece.

Okay...so this thing users allprefs...being as Dave coded it, I am not surprised.  I thus looked at the allprefs, to see how it recorded that you had the other pieces.  I then copied the code for a piece, and added to your allprefs the code I THINK will give you that fourth piece.  So you should have it now.  Please let me know, via YOM, ingame, if you now have the fourth piece.

There is more to getting on the Luckstar than that, so I am not gonna spoil it.  BUT you should have all four pieces...so try to board the Luckstar with what you have, you should get a clue as to what to do next.  If you have all four pieces, they will tell you something new you were not told before...that is how you will know you have all four pieces.  Please let me know if you do.  I do NOT want to alter this module in a way that would ruin it for sighted players, by making that fourth piece dead obvious.  Thus I just gave you the fourth piece, since you explained to me how it would be virtually impossible for one to get that fourth piece when using a screenreader...I do not want the fact of a screenreader to impede one's ability to play and enjoy the game.

I don't know that there s a way to address this, as I said...without making the thing dead obvious.

One possible would be to have a user pref in the module that could be Admin-set only...that would indicate the player uses a screenreader...and then have the hotkey show up ONLY for those set to screenreadrer user by an Admin.  But I am just spitballing an idea here on this...

In that same vein...perhaps an addnav to "Examine The Coaster" could be added for screenreader users...using the pref I mentioned that would be Admin-Settable only....thus preventing sighted players from cheating their way to the fourth piece. It is SUPPOSED to be difficult.  It should NOT, however, be inaccessible to screenreader users, and if I am reading you correctly, as it is now, it IS inaccessible for screenreader users.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 10:47:22 AM by TGTarheel » Logged
Wolfsbanewillow
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« Reply #81 on: April 29, 2018, 11:37:45 PM »

Yesterday evening (it is now 8:30 in the morning over here, I tried to check if I have indeed that 4th piece of the decree. But I'm not sure about what I saw: I could not board the Korinth anymore, it seems all the fish I hauled in was gone, I had to buy all the fishing equipment again, I could pay the iou's again. The only thing I can think of is the following:

If you managed it to give me the missing piece of the decree, I hope it doesn't matter in which order you collect the pieces. If this is the case and that one piece of the decree must be collected as the first one, it's possible I must start from zero again. But I even can't check as Trandor keeps on pretending he has an empty glass, although I paid for all rounds of drinks. So I can't see what happened, what is the current situation.

Besides all I wrote above it's not meant to be happening that the admin of the game has to deliver that piece. If that piece of the decree can be found like the others and is not presented as an image only (or by using another inaccessible method that makes it invisible for screenreader users), all players are the same for the game. If I have to do it all over and am started from zero, this is a bit frustrating and disappointing. I wish I could see what's the current situation. When I look in my backpack I can't find this out, only Trandor can tell, but the last time I checked, he keeps on pretending his glass was empty.

Best, WW
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« Reply #82 on: April 30, 2018, 12:18:58 AM »

Yesterday evening (it is now 8:30 in the morning over here, I tried to check if I have indeed that 4th piece of the decree. But I'm not sure about what I saw: I could not board the Korinth anymore, it seems all the fish I hauled in was gone, I had to buy all the fishing equipment again, I could pay the iou's again. The only thing I can think of is the following:

If you managed it to give me the missing piece of the decree, I hope it doesn't matter in which order you collect the pieces. If this is the case and that one piece of the decree must be collected as the first one, it's possible I must start from zero again. But I even can't check as Trandor keeps on pretending he has an empty glass, although I paid for all rounds of drinks. So I can't see what happened, what is the current situation.

Besides all I wrote above it's not meant to be happening that the admin of the game has to deliver that piece. If that piece of the decree can be found like the others and is not presented as an image only (or by using another inaccessible method that makes it invisible for screenreader users), all players are the same for the game. If I have to do it all over and am started from zero, this is a bit frustrating and disappointing. I wish I could see what's the current situation. When I look in my backpack I can't find this out, only Trandor can tell, but the last time I checked, he keeps on pretending his glass was empty.

Best, WW

 am sorry I can do no more.  Working with allprefs is a pain in the ass.  The only thing I could do at this point is to wipe your allprefs clean, and you'd have to start from scratch.  Then if you want to give me a password ito your account so I could sign in as you, I could get you the one piece you have a hard tie getting because of your screenreader.  That is all I can do at this point and I will if you want.  Allprefs was a terrible idea, should just use regular prefs that are easier for Admins to alter when needed.  If he had, it would have been very very easy to just give you the one piece you needed.  But that isn't how he coded it.

And sorry about the whole thing with this module not being all thrat screenreader friendly.  I could think up a few ways to address this...but not at the cost of ruining it for sighted players.

It is SUPPOSED to be hard...so hooking a hotkey to it would make it way too easy for sighted people to find it.

As I said, my one possible solution would be to make it so that there was an Admin-settable pref for those who use screenreaders that for them and them only, another way would come up.  And only Admin-settable so that sighted players would not use the setting to cheat their way to the piece.

If you want me to get that one piece for you, I recommend you change your password, then give me a password to log in as you.  I could get the piece and log back out.  Then you can log in and re-set your password to whatever it was before.  Let me know.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 12:22:37 AM by TGTarheel » Logged
Wolfsbanewillow
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« Reply #83 on: April 30, 2018, 04:43:36 AM »

Thanks for the help. Now I have to find the notary. But as this is part of the game, I won't ask for help. But knowledge of the real life doesn't seem to help over here. No notary at the jail, not in the inn, not in dwellings or marriage section, ... Best and thanks for the help, but it wasn't my intention to do it this way, because as I said, it isn't meant to do it with the help of an admin. The module itself should permit the user to find it at its own. Best, WW
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« Reply #84 on: April 30, 2018, 10:15:25 AM »

Thanks for the help. Now I have to find the notary. But as this is part of the game, I won't ask for help. But knowledge of the real life doesn't seem to help over here. No notary at the jail, not in the inn, not in dwellings or marriage section, ... Best and thanks for the help, but it wasn't my intention to do it this way, because as I said, it isn't meant to do it with the help of an admin. The module itself should permit the user to find it at its own. Best, WW

Normally, the modle DOES allow the player to find it on their own, but they need to be very observant.  The problem is...what you need to notice, to find it...you cannot discern with a screenreader.  And the way you describe a screenreader working (not using a mouse, for example) - means that it is probable that, with a screenreader, as written, this becomes impossible.  I am sure it was not the intent of Dave to do that...but those of us who ARE sighted often do not know what will block a screenreader.  Why would we since we have no experience using them?

This is where you can be helpful to me in terms of accessibility.  I am NEVER willing to take away from the game for the sighted...sorry...there are just some things I am not willing to do...and one of thse things is to takie away from the sighted just because the sight-challenged cannot partake.  What I am willing and would like to do...is to find solutions to allow the sight-challenged to partake in what they cannot.  If it can be done, I would do it.  but I will never take away from the sighted just because the sight-challenged cannot partake...it just isn't fair - and i do not believe in taking away from others...just because some "don't have."

I am more in favor of finding ways to increase accessibility and expand your game...rather than take away from someone else's.

To that end, as I said...the fourth piece is SUPPOSED to be hard to find.  It is NOT supposed to be impossible for those with screenreaders to find...but it appears to be.  So what is needed here is a solution to allow those who use screenreaders to complete it.

To that end....an Admin-only settable pref if a player is using a screenreader could solve this problem...it would then throw up some navigation that ONLY comes up for screenreader users...something that you CAN discern and also access.  It has to be an Admin-settable pref only, because otherwise sighted players could cheat their way to the piece...defeating the purpose intended...that one must be observant.

So it would be helpful to me, Wolfsbanewillow - if you could tell me exactly how you utilize a screenreader...what the screenreader sees and how you access functions on a screenreader.

Then I would need to determine the best way to go about setting this pref...either do it on a per-module basis...or find some way to make it a global setting.

So your input concerning screenreaders is beneficial to Admins like me who would like their game to be accessible to everyone...as much as possible.

Now...I believe there IS already a pref in the Ocean Quest which sets for screenreaders because of the graphical interface.  I do not know if I want to tie to that pref, just because it is player-accessible, thus would allow players to cheat.
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« Reply #85 on: April 30, 2018, 10:41:47 PM »

I wish I had the knowledge for answering all these questions. I only know that flash-based content or images etc. aren't accessible. Perhaps the developers of nvda www.nvaccess.org or the people who wrote this article could help? http://www.thisisinsider.com/how-blind-people-use-smartphones-2017-2
I understand you don't want to take away the fun for the seeing people. I only want to get the chance to participate in the fun, too. Best, WW
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« Reply #86 on: May 01, 2018, 06:44:44 AM »

I wish I had the knowledge for answering all these questions. I only know that flash-based content or images etc. aren't accessible. Perhaps the developers of nvda www.nvaccess.org or the people who wrote this article could help? http://www.thisisinsider.com/how-blind-people-use-smartphones-2017-2
I understand you don't want to take away the fun for the seeing people. I only want to get the chance to participate in the fun, too. Best, WW

That is precisely what I'd like to achieve.  I'm counting on you to help, because I have NO IDEA the limitations a screenreader imposes.  I have never used one.  You do.  That is where you can help me.

So let me tell you how it works for sighted people.  I am going to do that in a private message as it would otherwise be a spoiler.  I will tell you that you need to use a mouse, and I never knew that screenreader people do not use a mouse.

I'm glad you understand that I do not want to take away from seeing people just because screenreder users like yourself can't enjoy certain aspects...I prefer to find a way, if possible, to enable you to enjoy them too.
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« Reply #87 on: May 01, 2018, 11:51:43 AM »

I answered the private message: the most important thing to know is, if the part of the site is reachable by using the arrow-keys and if the text I have to find is not an image of a text but a text, text-based content, then it should be readable and reachable by a screenreader.

On the old Pottermore website there was a game included in which we could visit the books and chapters, several important scenes were accessible and within these moments or scenes you could collect several items. I don't know how seeing people saw the items, but I e.g. saw "collect" or "salt and pepper pot" and when I saw such words on strange places, I tried to use enter or space key (of keyboard) to activate the collectible objects. Sometimes it was necessary to open a drawer or let explode a cracker or open a cupboard. If this was the case, I could not find the objects (as seeing people did this by using the mouse). But when I switched off javascript I could find these collectibles. I could find almost all collectibles by doing so. The other animated stuff was inaccessible for me. But I found out many seeing players had difficulties in finding these collectibles. I unfortunately don't know how the developers of that game on Pottermore made these collectibles and can't explain how to do such stuff, as I can explain you how I use a screenrader, but I can't explain how a seeing person saw the website.

Best, WW
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« Reply #88 on: May 11, 2018, 12:51:08 AM »

for the follow-up, after some frustrating mails (sorry TgTarheel) we (we means TgTarheel, a screenreader specialist and me) could find out that the thing to find the 4th piece of the royal decree should be accessible for screenreader users. It's just a matter of looking at the correct place. The only thing I'm still puzzling is, what's on the page "hints" after clicking on "about ocean quest" I only can see the text "this is a good example of a hint" or something like that. But I don't see an example or something else besides that thext on the "hints"-page. But the decree should be findable completely when you use a screenreader. Hope this helps. Best, WW
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« Reply #89 on: May 11, 2018, 09:02:43 PM »

for the follow-up, after some frustrating mails (sorry TgTarheel) we (we means TgTarheel, a screenreader specialist and me) could find out that the thing to find the 4th piece of the royal decree should be accessible for screenreader users. It's just a matter of looking at the correct place. The only thing I'm still puzzling is, what's on the page "hints" after clicking on "about ocean quest" I only can see the text "this is a good example of a hint" or something like that. But I don't see an example or something else besides that thext on the "hints"-page. But the decree should be findable completely when you use a screenreader. Hope this helps. Best, WW
This is a good example of a hint is printed in a slightly different color and is not clickable, so you would not see anything different from a screenreader in that area.
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