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Author Topic: how tough will the transition to 0.9.8 be?  (Read 6564 times)
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sixf00t4
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« on: March 29, 2004, 11:54:15 PM »

just thinking a lot about this.  Will everyone's mods still work?  i know nothing about it, that is why i ask.  shouldnt we see it released in a month or so?
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Voratus
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« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2004, 06:01:33 AM »

I'm going to have a big headache when .9.8 gets released. I also know my headache will be less than many, though.
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Kendaer
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2004, 10:29:10 PM »

To answer your question, probably fairly tough depending on what you've changed.

There are lots of bits of the code which have moved around and been reorganized and cleaned up.  This will make some things hard.  Also, we are trying to discourage people editing the core code except in dire necessity.

This leads to part 2.  We have a modularization system in place (and even pretty much completely working though not yet fully featured) which makes certain things a LOT easier to add.  These will hopefully serve as examples of how to add complex behaviours to the game in such a way as to not need to change the core code.

For instance, the drunkeness code is now all in a module, as is Dag.  Those are probably the two most complex modules.  Before we release ALL of the forest specials will also be modules, as well as various pieces of the village proper.

Hopefully it won't be too painful for people to switch things over to the new model, but I suspect that it will take a lot of effort from the people who have customized their code.

Things like the Castle of Forbidden Dreams and a lot of the existing modules will require a pretty extensive rewrite to that system.   I'm quite sure that the authors of the various mods will port them however, and Eric and I will of course be able to help point you in the right direction (we won't port them but can tell you how the functions work, etc).
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sixf00t4
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2004, 12:43:05 AM »

is there going to be an "upgrade"  or is it just going to be a clean version release?
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Artte
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2004, 06:03:28 AM »

I'm sure there will be a clean upgrade from stock 0.9.7 code but those of us who mod the heck out of it will be having fun.
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Kendaer
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2004, 11:17:56 PM »

I'm sure there will be a clean upgrade from stock 0.9.7 code but those of us who mod the heck out of it will be having fun.

As in the past we will do our best to provide a clean upgrade from 0.9.7 to 0.9.8.

However, as was pointed out, those of you who have made modifications will have to rework your mods and *hopefully* will figure out how to put them under the new modules system rather than blithely hacking the main codebase Smiley

That's really the point behind some of this behind the scenes work so that future upgrades are easier since modules *should* be portable across versions as long as the module api doesn't change in a non-backward compatible way.

There will be some things which cannot be done via the current module system, and for those we will suggest that you find ways to extend the module system and pass those features back so that we can be forward-upgradeable in the future without breaking all your nice modifications.
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sixf00t4
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2004, 11:43:22 PM »

what i am worried that might happen, is that .9.8 isnt going to offer anything we dont have with all the mods we have right now.  sure, it may be a better system, but we have already broken so much ground with the mods we have in .9.7

just like US and the metric system, or the dvorak keyboard.

Is there a changelog somewhere for what differences there are so far?
If there aren't many, i am afraid .9.8 is either going to do very well, or fail miserably. Undecided
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Kendaer
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« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2004, 10:05:37 PM »

what i am worried that might happen, is that .9.8 isnt going to offer anything we dont have with all the mods we have right now.  sure, it may be a better system, but we have already broken so much ground with the mods we have in .9.7

just like US and the metric system, or the dvorak keyboard.

Is there a changelog somewhere for what differences there are so far?
If there aren't many, i am afraid .9.8 is either going to do very well, or fail miserably. Undecided

There are huge amounts of bugfixes and tweaks to the code to make it better.  Of course noone is forced to update, but once 0.9.8 is released, there will be no official support for 0.9.7 at all.  So if you use it after that point, you are on your own.  Unfortunately there is not a changelog, but I can look through the CVS changelog and see the number of things Eric and I have done, both to make the game easier to install/run on more systems (changing <? to <?php everywhere to support systems which don't allow short tags) and cleaning up all access to the _GET/_POST arrays (now handled via a function so that a value is always defined).. Most of these things won't impact playability, but WILL affect installation and maintainence and correctness of code.  Of course there are all of the features we've added to the game as well. Smiley
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sixf00t4
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« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2004, 10:31:51 PM »

that reminds me, did you add support for DB prefixes?
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Kendaer
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« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2004, 11:16:44 AM »

that reminds me, did you add support for DB prefixes?

Not yet.. it *is* on the list of things I plan on doing.  The only question in my mind is if I'll get to it before or after 0.9.8 is released.. I suspect before, but.... you never know Smiley (IE, it really depends on how much time I get to work on lotgd and how much shows up that needs doing.)
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sixf00t4
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« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2004, 11:21:35 AM »

someone here had mentioned that they coded this already...was it lonnyl?  Could you just implement someone else's code?
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Kendaer
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« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2004, 08:04:29 PM »

someone here had mentioned that they coded this already...was it lonnyl?  Could you just implement someone else's code?

Unfortunately no.. Sufficient code has changed between 0.9.7 and 0.9.8 at this point that patches made by other people, (especially large ones like the one Lonny made ages ago) aren't really feasible for use.  I had looked at the one Lonny made a while back (to clean up some of the php error/warning handling as well as this) and unfortunately it did some things in a way which wasn't quite right so I've been redoing a lot of that, and that is extremely time consuming (but I'm almost done).  Then comes a bit more work on some of the modules stuff that is *necessary* for release then will come the database prefixes unless something else necessary for release pulls me off.
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Kendaer
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2004, 08:26:09 PM »

Not yet.. it *is* on the list of things I plan on doing.  The only question in my mind is if I'll get to it before or after 0.9.8 is released.. I suspect before, but.... you never know Smiley (IE, it really depends on how much time I get to work on lotgd and how much shows up that needs doing.)

Just so you know, 0.9.8 now has preliminary support for database prefixes.  We need to modify the install proceedure to make it easy to deal with, but they now work assuming you create the tables by 'hand' with the prefix.   By the time we release 0.9.8 the install stuff will be up to snuff as well Smiley
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sixf00t4
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2004, 09:46:28 PM »

here's a question...

will it be possible to run both versions interacting with the same db?  this would help with the transition, atleast in my eyes.  keeping the .9.8 secret until i felt it was ready, and then giving people the the new link once i think it is ready or good enough.   i think the only thing that would hold that back would be if .9.8 removed tables or fields.
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Kendaer
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« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2004, 12:30:14 AM »

here's a question...

will it be possible to run both versions interacting with the same db?  this would help with the transition, atleast in my eyes.  keeping the .9.8 secret until i felt it was ready, and then giving people the the new link once i think it is ready or good enough.   i think the only thing that would hold that back would be if .9.8 removed tables or fields.

No.. Some of the database fields and setup changes.  We'll provide mechanisms to convert them between 0.9.7 and 0.9.8, but you will not be able to run both off the same databases.  (ie, yes, it removes some fields)
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