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Author Topic: Interpretation of Licensing  (Read 4631 times)
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Talisman
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« on: January 02, 2006, 01:27:05 PM »

The license under which LoGD is released indicates states that no derivative work which requires the LoGD game code for functionality is to be used for commercial profit or sold as a requirement for access.

Now...if someone offers unique material be it a module or a template, but the only way to get that module is to setup a hosting account with that person...is that violating the license?

Seems to me that requiring a purchase of anything in order to receive something which falls under the CCL, even if that something is free once the initial purchase is made, would be in violation of the license.

Thoughts?
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Sichae
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2006, 01:35:40 PM »

According to this interpretation of the License, then JT would not have been able to require a fee for the Captcha module, even if he spent a year of hard-coding on it.

If a module doesn't require change of the LotGD core, isn't derived from another module or doesn't need another module to function, then it can be held at the author's discretion, but I don't believe this goes as far as to slapping a fee on the work. To this end, I believe JT was well within his rights to allow limited distribution, but for profit, I don't think that's kosher.

When I think about Open Source, I think about the free reign of widely distributed code that offers no monetary gain outside of donations to the project. Collecting donations for such a thing is within rights, but asking for a fee or requiring 1,000 hurdles to be jumped, to me, is a violation of the license.

Although, interpretation is the key word. Interpretation is relative to the viewer's paradigm, within reason. But, if a general concensus can be realized, then another simplification or reasoning of the license could be written up, so that all can understand and there wouldn't be as many parts open to interpretation.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2006, 01:38:47 PM by Sichae » Logged

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Talisman
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2006, 01:38:48 PM »

As I recall, JT made the captcha module in such a way as to allow it to function without the game code, hence it is a standalone piece of software.

I also don't recall that he has actually made it available for download OR purchase.
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2006, 01:39:29 PM »

http://www.dragoncat.net/~jtraub/captcha.html

Also, the title of said page does indicate that this piece of code will work (is meant only to work) for LotGD. Seeing as how it IS a module, it does need LotGD code to function, therefore, is not a standalone piece of software, but merely another module that could be released at Dragonprime and releasing it does put it under the CCL license.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2006, 01:43:38 PM by Sichae » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2006, 01:43:28 PM »

Wasn't aware of that - is that page advertised anywhere?  

Irregardless, I think JT's rights under the license, being the one granting the license as opposed to falling under it, may be somewhat different than the rights of those using the open source code.

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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2006, 01:45:12 PM »

Wasn't aware of that - is that page advertised anywhere?

Took me a bit to find it, but he did openly write the link in this very forum.

Yes, as he is one of the copyright holders, he can grant special license. But I do believe this thread is more along the lines of the general user and my posts were in the mindset that JT, hypothetically, was a general user.

EDIT: Had to fix a typo. (didn't = did)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2006, 01:53:16 PM by Sichae » Logged

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Kendaer
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« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2006, 07:45:59 PM »

Any module which would fall under the 'privacy exception' (ie, it is a self-contained module which relys on no changes to the core code to work, and relies on no other modules in order to work, and is not derived from any other modules or core code) to the CCL could be sold, bartered, traded, kept private, etc.  Those are specifically exempted from the CCL *unless* the author chooses to place them under the CCL.

So, assuming that the unique content in question fell under that exception to the CCL, then you could in fact 'pay for it' via hosting services or some other mechanism.  If once that initial cost is met, the code devolves to being under the CCL, that is also ok.

What the 'no commerce' provision of the CCL is meant to prevent is someone taking the LoGD code and making private modifications to it and then charging people a monthly (or other) fee in order to play or, or taking it, modifying it, and then selling it to some game company for $1,000,000 Smiley

Clarified?
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« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2006, 09:37:48 PM »

Any module which would fall under the 'privacy exception' (ie, it is a self-contained module which relys on no changes to the core code to work, and relies on no other modules in order to work, and is not derived from any other modules or core code) to the CCL could be sold, bartered, traded, kept private, etc.  Those are specifically exempted from the CCL *unless* the author chooses to place them under the CCL.

So, assuming that the unique content in question fell under that exception to the CCL, then you could in fact 'pay for it' via hosting services or some other mechanism.  If once that initial cost is met, the code devolves to being under the CCL, that is also ok.

What the 'no commerce' provision of the CCL is meant to prevent is someone taking the LoGD code and making private modifications to it and then charging people a monthly (or other) fee in order to play or, or taking it, modifying it, and then selling it to some game company for $1,000,000 Smiley

Clarified?

Captcha doesn't rely on any other LoGD *modules* to work.

It is intended to work with the core files - lib, root, and so on, but relies on nothing in the Modules folder. (Captcha is a special case, as it can also run alone, but it would be the same for say, Polareia Borealis, if I had not released it.)

I hope this is clearer - this is something Kendaer explained to me when I raised the question some time ago. Under this explanation, a lot of the unique content coded by you and I, Sichae, could actually have been withheld from the CCL. By the same token though, our works on things such as Races, Specialties, Towns etc are actually based on LoGD existing code. I think it would be VERY difficult to actually write any of them from scratch and honestly claim not to have been derived from any LoGD work.

Kendaer and MightyE have been very forgiving on this last part (the "not being derived from existing CCL LoGD work" part) and allowed a lot of unreleased work to stay that way.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2006, 09:40:57 PM by SaucyWench » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2006, 09:46:14 PM »

Darn, I should've not released the Penguin Overlord. I had it running privately for a solid 2 months before Nightborn came to me and talked to me about it, seeing as how he is hosting me and probably has access to my stuff. ;P
« Last Edit: January 02, 2006, 09:48:00 PM by Sichae » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2006, 10:12:15 PM »

Captcha doesn't rely on any other LoGD *modules* to work.
No, it doesn't... It relies on a core change.

user.php, line 16-19
Code:
if ($op == "lasthit") {
   // Try and keep user editor and captcha from breaking each other.
   $_POST['i_am_a_hack'] = 'true';
}

But as it is JT's right to decide what is core and what is not, this does not count as a core change. Smiley
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Nightborn
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2006, 01:49:39 AM »

]:-> I just happened to see the text on your home ^^

*hrhr*
1 million bucks less, poor Sichae Wink I hope you don't have to rely on stealing now? Tongue

(I still think the penguin is a really nice module many servers I know use gladly)
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« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2006, 08:23:31 AM »

actually PB requires cities to run so you couldn't have kept it private =P

and that's in the released core chris, so captcha doesn't require code changes Wink
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XChrisX
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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2006, 11:33:05 AM »

and that's in the released core chris, so captcha doesn't require code changes Wink
That what I meant...

But cities.php is core, too... So how to handle this?
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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2006, 01:36:35 PM »

I believe it has to be completely standalone (ie. no dependencies to any other modules core or not) or you will have to release it under CCL. at least I think that's what JT said last time this was asked (not too long ago).
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Kendaer
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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2006, 05:15:46 PM »

Polera Borealis would definately *not* fall under the exemption as it requires the cities.php module.

Deimos' Haberdashery, or even Strider's thieves however, would very much have fallen under that exemption.

The captcha code as initially written didn't rely on that core change.  It's just that without that core change you could end up in a screwy badnav situation Smiley
So the core change was made to fix a bug exposed by Captcha (and specifically by the hooks Captcha was using) and not for captcha's functionality.  Regardless Wink

« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 05:17:24 PM by Kendaer » Logged
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