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Author Topic: Where do we go from here?  (Read 23034 times)
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XChrisX
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« on: November 09, 2005, 06:30:22 AM »

I'd actually suggest someone start a new thread and make some nominations for the committee. I'll point out that I'm not suitable, in case someone had the insane idea to nominate me - I don't mind reading code, but I'm honestly not even close to the league of the others here. I would think that the committee needs a good 6 at least to be impartial? Time to think about who the right ones are?
Actually I have already started to talk with Talisman and with JT & Eric about the future of LotGD.
I didn't want to rush the fences by now, as there are certain, personal things involved which need some kind of "clarification" before I wanted to start going to the public...

EDIT: Also Wink It's still about two months time...  Tongue
« Last Edit: November 11, 2005, 10:21:20 AM by Talisman » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2005, 06:43:19 AM »

Like everyone else, I just wanted to add my thanks for producing such a wonderful game.  I started out on Central as just a wee farmgirl over a year ago, and although I was not there but a month before moving to another server, I can honestly say I would not be the same today without having first stepped into the world of LoGD at Central.

On behalf of my staff members, we wish you all a fabulous retirement.  You definitely deserve it. Smiley
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Nightborn
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2005, 07:02:19 AM »

I agree to XChrisX statement.

Also, I don't think there should be a "patch section"....

Give the game a year or two... then the patch section will be as  great as the game itself in a way... let's call the last official version "stable, last official" but let fully operational releases come out after... it doesn't make sense to have patches and a release that's not very fresh.

But... as Chris said, we need some time and some talk Smiley this is but my humble opinion.
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SaucyWench
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2005, 09:20:42 PM »

I think I need to clarify a few things - sorry!

Every upgrade that has been released by JT and Eric to date has contained patches. Apart from new modules added to many of the releases, every single one has been a collection of patches. So there is nothing wrong with having eleventy bajillion patches - you can simply keep them in one gzip and call it a cumulative update.

Having just heard from them today, there is still no decision on announcing a successor to be in charge of the code. My suggestion doesn't seem to have won any fans. Might I ask you all a question: If one person takes up the role, would all of you be comfortable if that person named the next instalment 1.0.7 and it had things in it that you think are a really bad idea? Or worse still, things that *introduce* serious bugs? Nothing in the current license stops ME doing that, releasing LoGD v1.0.7 full of swiss cheese security exploits, and changes to YOUR modules making them appear in Swahili instead of English.

We have a chance here to try to ensure that LoGD development goes forward in a reasonably controlled manner. If we don't make an attempt, every idiot and his dog can release version 2, version 10, etc etc etc. If DragonPrimers actually pull together, if respected members here all agree on updates, we can at least say, "This is the version supported by the DragonPrime Committee; other versions we cannot recommend."
« Last Edit: November 09, 2005, 09:23:07 PM by SaucyWench » Logged

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XChrisX
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2005, 09:37:04 PM »

@Saucy:

I think we both misunderstood each other Wink

I thought you wanted to keep the 1.0.6 as it is forever and provide a second archive with a collection of patches. And then I'd have to download and install both.

You can see in the "Realm Creation" forum, that some people don't even manage to do one installation Grin

I'd like to have someone release further versions of LotGD. I don't mind them being called 1.0.7, 1.1.0 or whatever number.
I don't mind being part of such a coalition which does those releases. And I'd be more than happy if we here could forge such a coalition. And I'd be equally as happy, if I could provide my experience and a bit of infrastructure in here.

Your fears, someone could turn all modules into Suaheli are right. That shouldn't be done... But this is not a problem of the current situation. It could have been done before - if someone wanted this. But I don't think it would have been accepted iin any way by this community.

So what we should do: Keep this community spirit alive! The following might sound a bit harsh, but it'll be the names which will change, hopefully not the result. (I hope I won't be misunderstood here... Wink )
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Elessa
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2005, 10:01:19 PM »

i truly believe the best course of action to be taken by the community would be for a committee to be formed to consider the furthering of the core code.

my concern dost be the fact that in september 2005, talisman called upon the dragonprime community to form a committee to review modules for stability, translation readiness, etc.  i dost not believe there was much response to such an idea.

now is the time for the community to consider what direction the code should take, and begin planning for january 2006 when kendaer and mightye hand it to us.
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Talisman
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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2005, 10:21:33 PM »

To avoid any confusion about my own intentions:

An unaltered copy of MightyE/JT's final release will be maintained here, available for download.  Patch files will be created to fix minor problems (typos, glitches, translation readiness) and available as additional downloads.  If there are enough of them, I will eventually offer a version 1.0.6+DP download in addition to the final release.

Naturally, I will be relying on the skilled and dedicated members of DragonPrime to find, fix and generate these files.

Beyond that, with regards to ongoing furthering of the game code...well...we'll see what happens.
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Nightborn
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2005, 12:56:11 AM »

Hm...

regarding the request from Dannic and the others concerning the module review team.... *hm* .... it is *a lot* work to review hundreds of modules now and then the modules coming out ... you have to test them out, read every single line. For what?

I didn't like the idea in particular, yet in general. But for a core, where it is decided *what* modules to include and providing fixes is something different. You know about the core and how it operates. You don't have to review tons of modules you don't know.

I think that might have been the thoughts of many people.

I really don't like the idea of patching. I stated what I think. Keep 1.0.6 as last stable one forever, but do it like now. Collect changes in a cvs and release it if there are enough fixes collected.
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XChrisX
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2005, 01:01:56 AM »

Why not keep two version... (or three...)

  • 1.0.6
  • 1.1.0 and following
  • and eventually a diff-package to patch the offical 1.0.6 release to the current DP's-Suggestion-Release
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Dannic
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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2005, 03:23:47 AM »


regarding the request from Dannic and the others concerning the module review team.... *hm* .... it is *a lot* work to review hundreds of modules now and then the modules coming out ... you have to test them out, read every single line.

Funny thing about that is you already do it for the modules you think you might be interested in.  I haven't honestly seen a new module being introduced in a few days yet either.  So it isn't quite hundreds of modules.   And it doesn't have to be every single module that is introduced to the community.  I know there are one or two I probably would not have submitted of my own.  Just because I don't think they are really done enough to do that with.

Now, I might be wrong here, but it sounded like Kendear and SaucyWench have been alluding to the DragonPrime community keeping and updating the code for the future.  Not necessarily one person.  But there has to be enough people who are willing to take up that gauntlent before that can happen.

Personally, I like the idea of continuing where they leave off.  Release it all at one time like has been done in the past.  That is what people have expected.  If we want to do more, that is some thing we can discuss as a team.
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Nightborn
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2005, 03:40:40 AM »

Mhm, you might be right Wink

Personally, I have much to do with translating new stuff and making Eths Petshop tl-ready (as I am fixing bugs now) just because I need that one.
I also spend 90% of my time making the tl-wizard better, because this should help everybody. Translating is a horrible job... very time-consuming.
The other 10% are gone for helping people to install their game and keep it running.

We'll see what happens either way.
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Dannic
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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2005, 03:49:57 AM »

Mhm, you might be
The other 10% are gone for helping people to install their game and keep it running.

heh... That is why you see what I have in my signature.  I don't mind helping out if it is needed but I really don't have time to spend with someone elses game when I could be spending it on mine.  Especially if I am doing something that I can give to the community.
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Nightborn
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2005, 03:56:02 AM »

Smiley If I haven't had the help of XChrisX and tons of other people ... I would have more even more dumb than now Wink

That's why I think if some are willing and have only minor issues, why not help them? Currently I am even hosting some of them.
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Kendaer
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2005, 11:03:10 AM »

Now, I might be wrong here, but it sounded like Kendear and SaucyWench have been alluding to the DragonPrime community keeping and updating the code for the future.  Not necessarily one person.  But there has to be enough people who are willing to take up that gauntlent before that can happen.

Just to clarify.

Come January 1, 2006, I will be making the last release that I and Eric will make of the code. (probably will be numbered 1.0.6, but if sufficiently large bugs get found/fixed in the interim it might be a higher number as I make an interim release to fix those problems).

After that point, you, the community of Dragonprime, collectively or singly can do whatever you all decide to do, be that letting the code die, picking up where Eric and I leave off and making new official versions, keeping the final version and publishing 'recommended patches' or whatever.  Eric and I won't be driving it, nor will we be saying 'John Q. Public is the new official maintainer'.  We will however make available whatever information we can so that people can take over *if* that is their wish.   That's why we spent time answering XChrisX's questions about some things the other day.  We'll offer the same information/tools to anyone who wants it.

The CCL license allows you to take up where we leave off and continue releasing new versions of the official code.  It allows you to just release the patches if that is your preference.   As long as my and Eric's names remain on the copyright and the code remains under the CCL and the new releases and/or patches follow the rules laid down by the CCL, there is no problem with anything.

Yes, if two different people or sets of people decide to each take up where we leave off there will be a code fork.  It's up to those people/groups to resolve it or not as they see fit, and up to the community to decide which one they favor (if either).

Hope this clarifies the official position of Eric and myself.
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Torne
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« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2005, 04:15:18 PM »

I really do feel that a selection of people from here continuing to make full tarball releases, however you want to identify them (1.0.6+dp34.3 or 1.1 or whatever), would be valuable. Without, the game will simply become ever more difficult to install for less experienced PHP hackers. I spent some time reviewing the contents of the RAID forum looking to see which reported issues were still current in 1.0.3 in order to apply the fixes to my game - if I didn't have too much time on my hands I probably wouldn't've bothered, and those bugs, minor though most of them were, would've been neglected until the next release. If there never was a next release, they'd just be neglected forever Wink

I would like to be involved, but the last thing I want to happen is for me, or any one other person really, to just pick up the code and start releasing $someversion without any discussion taking place, because that way leads to forking. I understand JT/Eric/etc not wanting to designate someone as 'successor', and I think we should really be able to sort this out for ourselves anyway. Smiley Whether the model adopted is the semi-open version control I put forward in my last post, or just some folks discussing changes on the forums and then eventually someone posting a new tarball, is less important than having general agreement as to who the folks in question should be Wink

We have time to discuss it, so, uhm. I'd start by nominating Talisman, XChrisX.. Wink
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