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Author Topic: I got a shock  (Read 10406 times)
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Sapphire
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« on: April 15, 2005, 12:23:08 AM »

I was informed today that a graphic I made  from scratch, has been stolen and made downloadable, without my knowledge or consent.
The name given as owner of the module is

CortalUX

To say I'm annoyed is an understatement.
This isnt good enough, and must stop. To ask is acceptable, to steal is NOT.
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2005, 12:34:10 AM »

what graphic is it?
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Sapphire
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« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2005, 12:38:28 AM »

Its the graphic I created for our weather. Tristan Lueking wrote the code for it. It took us a fair time to get it right and to have it just taken without being asked...or given any credit is just not on im sorry.
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Lightbringer
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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2005, 12:43:59 AM »

Hate to say it...but all's fair in love and lotgd...

As there were no available downloads for this particular feature - or should I say any feature - how else are people expected to obtain things...

Several people have asked for things - and don't get it...

The spirit of this community is utterly shredded when this sort of thing happens..

I can guarantee that breaches of licence are not favourably considered by the developers of the original source...
« Last Edit: April 15, 2005, 12:44:31 AM by Lightbringer » Logged

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Sapphire
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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2005, 12:56:55 AM »

I appreciate your point of view. However, because you don't ask and steal that, which does not rightfully belong to you ..because... You want it ...Is not right no matter how you look at it.
To create takes time and patience and is to be commended. To steal does not, and is to be condemned.
We work on what we want, why don't others?  Why do they think they have a right to take it..and... not give credit where credit is due.
I would share my graphics, hours and hours of work, If I were asked, and was given the credit for producing said graphics, but I wasn't asked.
To steal works..... Must stop.
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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2005, 01:14:25 AM »

Nowhere in the GPL/CCL does it hamper creativity and such...

All it asks is that contributions to the community are made to recognise the *years* that have been put into the source itself...

I was of the same opinion myself...why should we give anything back - we want the server to be unique...etc etc ad nauseum...

Easy answer...

The developers created this entire game - with legally binding rules and regulations - that is free...it allows creation of code to personalise servers and whatnot...all that is asked in return is a little bit given back...not much to ask for...

This is not a personal attack on any sites in particular - however it is an ethically sound and perfectly reasonable comment on those who do not follow the license - especially considering upon installation of the build - admins accept this fact...

I am pretty sure that Cortal should be given a chance to respond before commenting on any discrepancies that may have occured..and I cannot speak for him...

However...

I CAN comment on the fact that to the majority of the coders/modders here - this goes against the very premise that LotGD was created on...

anyways...enough of this rant...

 
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lonnyl
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2005, 04:32:34 AM »

I usually don't have much to say about things like this.... except there was a name brought up by our accuser that has some history.... take a peek at lotgdaddiction.com..... you will see alot of  .97 work modified and attributed to this person as the author....

Now the accusations may or may not be true... that is not for me to decide...  however the source to me seems questionable and is coming from a place that has leached and leached and not contributed.....  

Ugh.... hope that didn't sound like a flame..... just an observation.....

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lonnyl
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2005, 04:58:35 AM »

I've pulled the 2 images..... they are slightly different.... someone took something from someone and made a slight change.....

Well.. I will leave both images here for the world to ponder....

My opinion.... the best way to protect your work... release it here and there is a record of  when you released it... else get a copyright......  

The graphics in question
CortalUX's


Sapphire's
« Last Edit: April 15, 2005, 05:00:12 AM by lonnyl » Logged
Sapphire
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2005, 05:09:08 AM »

All my work created  on layers using PSP 7.

CortalUX did not create this work. I DID.
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XChrisX
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2005, 05:10:44 AM »

else get a copyright......  

Well You don't have to *get* a copyright... By almost all (if not all) jurisdictions copyright is granted without application.

So, the person creating any idea/file/"data" first AND releasing it *anywhere* to any public will be granted the copyright.

Now is the problem, that it has to be found out, who has created this file originally... that it's almost the same is IMHO of no question...
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Sapphire
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2005, 05:17:01 AM »

I am on staff at Lotgdaddiction and i'm aware of the accusations leveled at Tristan. However.. having been with addiction for the last year, and knowing Tristan well and the work he is doing and has done, I also know... that the accusations re his work being not his own are unfounded and simply untrue.

His work, like mine has been stolen and no credit given, then these accusations are made based on a false claim, by one who it would appear stole them. Many unique Ideas formed by us and coded  are then found on other sites as being coded by people  who definitely had no imput what so ever but claim them as their own.

This has been a thorn in my side as well as in Tristan's. It is galling to find your work on other sites with people who have no rights to them claiming them.

Lotgd is a perfect vehicle for displaying a young coders talents and for a game such as this to be diverse. Unfortunately it seems that no diversity is allowed as, when something comes out that's unique it's open to being taken and added to every game that wants it. A pity, we all come out looking like clones of one another.

The accusers know the truth, and so do I. Tristan does code what he claims, but there doesn't seem to be a way to prove this. One thought though.. Register every module as you complete it. Detail it, give it a number and date and the name of the creator. This and this alone is the only way I can see around the problems of thief of ones work.

If you are accused often enough, believe me, you quickly lose the willingness to share.  I have not been soured totally yet as I have yet to see my unique code displayed with someone else's name on it, but the day will come, and I will no longer be willing to share the hours of work I put into the game.
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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2005, 05:30:53 AM »

Well... Without knowing your server at all, I can tell:

If you had an idea and wrote a module, you can and do hold copyright to this source code.

If I had the same idea and would write a module to do the same, I would hold copyright to that module.

And it has nothing to do with "Thief".

I know, that there are at least to estate and two marriage scripts out there...   And at least the estates script looks VERY similar... But both have been written completely independantly (although the authors were assisting each other on the one or other question...)

And as far as I know, not one of them has a problem with this...
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lonnyl
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« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2005, 05:35:15 AM »

And I mean in no way to demean the work you have put into this.....

I do however have my reservations, because of who you are associatied with.....

Luekinghost spam became enough of a problem on my 0.9.7 game that the word luekinghost was put in the bad word list....  Much of the code that is on the current game (now at lotgdaddiction) is derivitaves of work done by others.  And clearly stated as Tristan being the author of said code.  Now I am not here to complaing about that, as that work was released under gpl, and no laws are being broken.  Don't believe me?  look at the code and compare it to what is available in 0.9.7 for download.    It's up to you to decide.  And even though I had my problems with the whole Luekinghost spam thing, that still gives no one the right to take something that isn't theirs.  

I have a mind to remake the image from scratch and solve the issue.......

Please don't take my comments as being totally against you, or not believing you... however the reputation that you bring with you (by bringing up a name that I know will raise hairs on many who developed for 0.9.7) is a bit tarnished.   It's a sad fact that we do judge people by the company they keep.  And I may have rushed to conclusions (although I am trying to remain neutral and fair here) in my first post.   I would also implore you to share your work, I share 99% of what I do (the other 1% is fairly useless to anyone else)....  Hopefully by sharing, the work that I have done will enjoy a certain degree of immortality, even if I someday tire of running lotgd or can no longer develop.  

Now you have a few courses of action from here..... One is getting credit in CortalUX's module as author of the image..... 2 have it removed from CortalUX's module (in which case a new image will take it's place)..... 3 (well I will leave option 3 up to you).....

Good Luck to all involved.... I hope this can be settled amicably.
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Sapphire
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2005, 05:38:49 AM »

I understand that others will come up with their own unique ideas that are very similar to anothers. Coding this themselves is fair and legitimate and I certainly have no problem with this.
But Tristan's code has turned up unchanged and claimed by someone else.
My graphics have now turned up as belonging to someone else.
The slight changes are.  He has cut off part of the night sky and put in on the beginning of the graphic. That is all. Its still my graphic that I did. As I stated earlier, I would gladly share my work, If asked... but to have it taken then find its downloadable and claimed by someone else is most disturbing.
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lonnyl
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« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2005, 05:43:08 AM »

Well... Without knowing your server at all, I can tell:

If you had an idea and wrote a module, you can and do hold copyright to this source code.

If I had the same idea and would write a module to do the same, I would hold copyright to that module.

And it has nothing to do with "Thief".

I know, that there are at least to estate and two marriage scripts out there...   And at least the estates script looks VERY similar... But both have been written completely independantly (although the authors were assisting each other on the one or other question...)

And as far as I know, not one of them has a problem with this...

The image will hold a copyright as well...... and useage can be enforced by the author.  The module I doubt can be as tristans code is not viewable, and Cortal would have had to write the module from scratch.  Copying only the idea..... Idea's have to be patented and cannot be covered by a copyright.  
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