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Author Topic: Discussion on lotgd.net listing performance improvements  (Read 3170 times)
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enderwiggin
Guest
« on: January 17, 2005, 03:09:48 PM »

Instead of checking with the main LotGD.net server constantly, can we do it as a Cron job once a day?
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lonnyl
Guest
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2005, 03:30:55 PM »

The problem is that it's also gaging the activity on your server for placement in the list... if we left it to a cron job that stored things locally and sent once a day..... well... this leaves room for tampering with the data (cheating for position).
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enderwiggin
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2005, 03:36:54 PM »

Well, I'm no expert on such things.  But how is the server currently analyzed for activity when the data is sent?

Can't we just so that same thing once a day rather than continually?
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lonnyl
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2005, 05:52:10 PM »

Well, I'm no expert on such things.  But how is the server currently analyzed for activity when the data is sent?

Can't we just so that same thing once a day rather than continually?

again... if the data is saved at the local level, it leaves open the possibility for tampering with the usage stats.... I know it would take me about 2 minutes to figure out  the local data and falsely improve my stats.  Not that I would, but if I can do it, just about anyone else can!  Grin
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Dannic
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2005, 06:08:18 PM »

I loved the listing and traffic I got from lotgd.net.  however it was causing lots of incomplete pages and complaints.  I had to take it down myself.  

Firefox would choke on it sometimes.

A cron job would be nice to just get listed.  Though if a cron job was listed then maybe those could just not be ranked.

Or some sort of voting?  That's worse than a cron job imho but would gather more traffic for lotgd.net.

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enderwiggin
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2005, 06:24:50 PM »

Randomizing the listings might be more equitable.

If someone is currently at the top of the list, they are going to get more players because of the top listing, which petuates itself.  Just because a server has been around longer, that doesn't make it inherently better.
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Kendaer
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2005, 08:52:07 PM »

No, it cannot be done with a cron job.  People running on windows (far too many people imho) don't really have cron and as lonny pointed out you could cheat.

Basically the way the code works (which you all could figure out if you picked it apart Smiley) is that every time someone logs in, in talks to lotgd.net to update the activity stats.  it *also* caches the paypal logo for the author donation form in the users session cookie (along with the correct HTML to direct it to eric!) to make it harder for admins to use logdnet to advertise but direct all donations to themselves (yes, this happened a LOT).

Now, when your server contacts central, central looks at the version and data strings info and tracks a few things, such as number of users online (for historical data though that isn't ranked in the rankings!).  If this is the first login your server has had within that minute, it also adds some amount to your popularity.  Popularity decays over time as well.

Basically your ranking is showing how many 'minutes per day' your server is active.
And no, we are not going to randomize this.  We actually think that ranking servers such that more active servers encourage more players is a *good* thing since having players to interact with makes the game more fun and you are more likely to find players to interact with on a continually active server.

We also sort the list (before even popularity) by game version giving higher placement to more current versions of the game. This is *also* by design and isn't going to change.
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enderwiggin
Guest
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2005, 09:04:52 PM »

Fair enough.  It's your game, and your code.  That's your perogative.  However, it does seem to be a bit of rewarding the rich, and penalizing the poor, since already active games will get the most players.  It creates a Catch-22.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the theory that popularity equates to quality, especially when the popularity of a server is self-propogating.  In such a system, once a server gets on the top of a list by whatever means, be it luck, seniority or genuine quality, it's hard for them to drop.

While I desire more players to see my server, and check it out, I don't think I'm going to keep my game listed on LoGD.net, as a newcomer I am banished to bottom of such a list, while at the same time, I slow down my pageloads.

Again, I respect your right to run your game however you so decide.  I'm grateful that it's open source.  But given the server listing system I think I plan to opt out.
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dvd871
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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2005, 09:39:14 PM »

There are plenty of places that you can list your server and get new players.  I did a few google searches and submitted my .9.7 site to some and saw about 100+ new players over a period of about 2 months.  At the time my server was limited to only 12Gb a month so I didn't go all out.  Site promotion is a thing that takes time and you need to keep your listing 'fresh' buy resubmitting and editing your sites profile listing addons and changes, etc.  Hope that gives you some ideas and I don't mean in any way to take away from lotgd.net. Smiley
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enderwiggin
Guest
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2005, 09:45:54 PM »

Thanks for you advice.  I do understand that the onus for site promotion for my site falls on my shoulders.  No one here owes me anything.  I don't expect LoGD.net to advertise my site.
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Kendaer
Guest
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2005, 09:56:39 PM »

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the theory that popularity equates to quality, especially when the popularity of a server is self-propogating.  In such a system, once a server gets on the top of a list by whatever means, be it luck, seniority or genuine quality, it's hard for them to drop.

First, the list doesn't measure *popularity*.  It measures *activity*. And no, it's not hard to drop at all.  Watch the ranking of logd.dragoncat.net over the next week or so as people adopt 0.9.8-prerelease.13.

And no, neither popularity nor activity relate to quality.  However, it *is* much more likely that a site which attracts players *AND* keeps them (thus being active) does have more quality players (or at least more of what those players want).
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Middleclaw
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2006, 10:28:09 PM »

Sorry for reactivating an old thread but I am curious as to thy state of such said listing now as I hath just been browsing it and hath found a number of links that hath broken and am now wondering how often is thee list updated and maintained. Thou sayest that this listing devalues over time but what if a site doth not exist no more?
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XChrisX
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2006, 10:36:28 PM »

How owuld you want to find out? The site cannot be contacted... This could be everything... From a server that is restarted just at this very moment, continueing with DNS problems, going over to connection problems / restrictions...

This is why the value slowly decreases over time until the server is not listed anymore.
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Middleclaw
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2006, 10:52:42 PM »

I thank thee for thy answer but if a site which was much active suddenly dissappear and not resurface thy listing would take a long time to degrade into nothingness. Thy rate of degrading is constant, is it not? If it would be prudent to suggest a scriting where such degrading hath happened over a set period of time thy link shalt be removed.
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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2006, 10:57:55 PM »

I don't know about the exact procedure (I think only MightyE and Kendaer do know about this) so I cannot answer your question.

But I have experienced, that with our server, turning on the registration for two days lead to our server being listed on top of the list for at least another week... (That might be special for our server, but it lets me think, that the degeneration cyclus might be linear...)
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