DragonPrime - LoGD Resource Community

Modules, Themes and other customizations for your game => v0.9.7 Modification Discussions => Topic started by: dbgtrulz on February 11, 2005, 08:59:44 AM

Title: Hiding the source code
Post by: dbgtrulz on February 11, 2005, 08:59:44 AM
Well, my first mod. Also probably the simplest mod on the site. This is the easiest way to hide the source code in 0.9.7. I didn't see any other mods to hide the source code on here, so I wanted to share my way of doing it. Here is all you have to do:

=> open source.php

=> Find
=> after it add
<script type="text/javascript">
alert("Error: Code for this website is hidden");
You can change the Error: Code for this website is hidden part to whatever you want the message box to say.

Hope you will like it.

Title: Re:Hiding the source code
Post by: Talisman on February 11, 2005, 09:05:00 AM
There's a reason why there are no mods available to hide the source code - it is frowned upon, and certainly not condoned.

This is an open source project and an open source community.  We try to give back to the community as much as we benefit from it.

The desire to keep your server unique from others through the use of content not available elsewhere is understandable, and supported, but hiding all source isn't.  There are ways you can protect specific files...but if you are using mods created by this community, you should be sharing with the community as well.

The game, community and DragonPrime are about sharing code, not hiding it.

Title: Re:Hiding the source code
Post by: Lightbringer on February 18, 2005, 07:04:19 AM
I can see exactly what you refer to in this, Talisman...

The community does indeed benefit from the revelation of the source code in the multitudes of servers...

I would be interested to find out how to protect selected files tho...I am working on a rather large project at the moment (hence no submissions as of yet) and feel that some of the source - as it will be entirely different from  existing LotGD code (save for calls to the DB and common) - should be held close to the chest...

The last thing that I, and I am sure there are others out there that, after making monumental changes wouldn't want to see hundreds of sites popping up with the same modifications...

What I am currently working on transcends existing LotGD and I understand that the Creative Commons License dictates that practically all should be revealed...

If there is any way to still adhere to the license (my 4 games all currently reveal all source **9.7, 9.8 pre 13 X 2, 9.8 pre 14** and I do not wish to break the terms of the license as a lot of hard work and community input has gone into the creation of LotGD and the subsequent builds....

If you or anyone else wishes to discuss any of this with me - feel free to message me via YOM here or any of the IM programs...

Any help whatsoever in this issue would be more than appreciated as I want to create - and want to help a little bit in the furthering of this great game - but still want to protect some of the creative effort that myself and my team of coders are putting in...

Cheers :)

Title: Re:Hiding the source code
Post by: Sneakabout on February 18, 2005, 07:46:22 AM
I think there is an exception for private modules which don't interact with other modules.... but any core modifications or sets of modules have to be revealed. Note, I'm not an expert, and if you distribute it you certainly need to open the source.

Title: Re:Hiding the source code
Post by: Lightbringer on February 18, 2005, 08:01:38 AM

There is one niggling issue in the back of my mind however...one pertaining to intellectual copyright..Nowhere in the CCL does it claim to supercede intellectual copyright which therefore creates a quirky little situation...

The Creative Commons License dictates that all source be revealed if it directly correlates with the originating author's works...

However - intellectual copyright gives people the right to prevent their work from being copied...

Therefore...The source must be revealed - BUT and it is a big BUT...Source that is clearly designed by the game owner is subject to intellectual copyright and hence can't be copied and used at another site..

Title: Re:Hiding the source code
Post by: Sneakabout on February 18, 2005, 08:55:33 AM
Actually, you are incorrect. It does not require that you just "reveal" your source, but release it under a license identical to the original, the creative commons, which gives them the freedom to distribute etc. as they wish. This is obvious considering the spirit of this community.

Title: Re:Hiding the source code
Post by: Lightbringer on February 18, 2005, 06:32:52 PM
Perhaps you should investigate Intellectual Copyright, Sneakabout...

It isn't a thing I ripped from the top of my head...

Title: Re:Hiding the source code
Post by: Dannic on February 18, 2005, 06:40:23 PM
I don't think you can claim intellectual copyright on a work that is goverened by another liscense which requires you to release the code if asked.

the GPL would allow you to do that but the CCL does not.  Any changes you made to the core of 0.9.8  you would be required to release if asked.  Reguardless of any ineellectual ideas that originated with you.

Most people who develop for LoGD could claim intellectual copyright if that were the case.

Title: Re:Hiding the source code
Post by: Sichae on February 18, 2005, 06:46:13 PM
Perhaps you should investigate Intellectual Copyright, Sneakabout...

It isn't a thing I ripped from the top of my head...

All written material on this website are DERIVATIVE works... therefore, they are held under the CC license, and therefore, they must abide by all of the rules herein. So, you are not allowed to hide source code, under the CCL.

As well, ANY and ALL scripts written for LotGD, are derivative works, EVEN if they are private. Therefore, you are unable to hid source, even on private scripts.

In the course of privatization, which has been brought up before, we would be able to stop the expansion of your scripts in the LotGD community, as long as we registered with LotGD Net...

IN FACT, intellectual copyright can not be taken on here. Recent Example: Lurch comes up with the Idea of quotes on the Index. Cortal took that idea, and made it, before Lurch could release it... yet they both released, and no one was pissed.

As this is Open Source, as Talisman had already stated, to hide source code, might and would halt the development of the project. Just think if Central or Dragoncat didn't reveal source code... then the project would die, unless someone else wanted to take it up. And who would be there to say that they wouldn'y do the same?

Just give the source code...


As well, who is to say that someone did not come up with the idea for a Release of LotGD after 97, before Eric wished to release it, or even had thought of it?

Title: Re:Hiding the source code
Post by: Talisman on February 18, 2005, 08:08:22 PM
First off, remember that you are dealing with two different licenses, and the requirements under each differ slightly.  The CCL only applies to version .98 and derivative works.  Version .97 is governed by the GNU GPL.

Before you get yourself too involved in any debates regarding application of the license, I strongly urge you to THOROUGHLY read the various threads contained here, at lotgd.net/forum and in the Sourceforge project forum regarding application of said licenses.  I think you'll find that the developers are VERY familiar with the requirements and definitions involved.

Also, if you thoroughly read the threads and documentation included with the source code, there are many provisions made which will assist mod writers in hosting unique servers.

By the way - you will find that most of the contributors here are less than willing to aid you in hiding source code, when the very premise of this site is the SHARING of source code.  Progress as you will, but don't be surprised if argumentative attempts to exploit perceived loopholes in the licenses are not well met.

As far as concealing specific files in the game, I'm sure if you're able to come up with something that is so earthshatteringly unique and unreliant on any of the existing game code, finding the solution to this question will be a breeze.  

Title: Re:Hiding the source code
Post by: Talisman on February 18, 2005, 08:23:59 PM
Oddly enough, I note the source at your profile linked site is hidden! ::)

Oh...and your one original module, clantrain, has a download link to a file in your dragonprime folder, which you haven't actually uploaded that or any file too.

Title: Re:Hiding the source code
Post by: Lightbringer on February 19, 2005, 04:18:46 AM
Oh crap..lol...will fix that hastily....

I do not bring that stuff up to offend...and I will galdly drop it lol...

I was merely curious and needed to be informed...

I will be working on a few things to submit to the community - including a graveyard script that allows players to view epitaphs and post goodbyes to characters that have left the game or have been deleted...will also include a flower vendor and 'Scrolls of Remembrance'...

At the moment - it will be a hack from teh login screen and from the village - and maybe from the actual garveyard as well...

I will keep people posted on my progress...

As a final note - I apologise for my earlier posts as they were unnecessary and callous...

I just hope that people can forgive my impudence and still welcome me to the community ... I can understand if you all don't


Title: Re:Hiding the source code
Post by: Kendaer on February 19, 2005, 11:26:31 PM
As talisman pointed out, the reason that the CCL and the GPL (for their respective versions) can be enforced is because all work on LoGD is a deriviative work from the version it is made to.

Derivative works retain the copyright of the initial author are are not able to be subsumed by the new author.

0.9.7 and the GPL require source availability ONLY if you distribute the binaries.   It contains no provisions for distributing code when running a game on a server at all, and so the requirements to share code were completely unenforceable.   This is what prompted the change to the CCL in 0.9.8

The CCL requires redistristribution if you 'publically perform' the work.  According to case law, with respects to computer games, running a game on a website constitutes public performance.   This gives us the leverage to actually require that all source code be made available from a 0.9.8 site upon request!.   Now, Eric and myself added in an exemption to he stock CCL.   Since we know and understand the value of original content in a game, we specifically allow modules (and only modules!) to be kept private as long as they are completely self-contained.   If they require any other module to function, OR are required by any other module for it to function, then they cannot be kept private and must be shared on request.   This, in our opinion strikes the right balance between admins having original content, and making sure that the community cannot be harmed by an admin taking everything that other people have written and hiding it away.

Title: Re:Hiding the source code
Post by: Lightbringer on February 20, 2005, 01:48:52 AM

Thank you so much for clearing it up so succinctly...

I can now see precisely what the various licenses allow/disallow and it is all fair and just...

Good to know the ways that private modules can remain as such - although on light of this new information and deep thought .. it would be rather petty for me to do such unless it was something drastic and unique to my server..

Thanks again, Kendaer...and congrats on the new prerelease...

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